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Author Topic: Swing Axle to IRS conversion  (Read 11944 times)
 
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wment
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« on: December 09, 2010, 09:04:42 AM »
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Can someone let me know what is involved with converting from a swing axle rear suspension to a IRS rear suspension. I know there are brackets that need to be welded to the tube. Are there any tips or tricks that I need to be aware of before starting this conversion?

wm
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« on: December 09, 2010, 09:04:42 AM »

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Baha bug
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 10:59:48 AM »
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I may e doing the same soon. and will need the brackets for the axle tube, new trans. I have a 091 6 rib, proper cv joints along with the new correct length axles. and I will upgrade to 3x3 arms. stub axles. I may be missing something let us now ED
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Jim S
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vwguy666
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 08:11:01 AM »
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This was just covered in the last couple issues of HotVW's, I think it was a two-issue tech tip. If you have decent fabrication and welding skills it doesn't look too bad

 Cool
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strokin
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2010, 04:43:05 PM »
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they do make jigs to locate the pivot brakets corectly, or you could just use the arm.
youll also need spring plates. 
the hardest part appears to be cutting the smallest hole possible in the frame horn, cuz the brkt will sit pretty flush with the horn
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wment
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 08:40:24 AM »
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Smallest hole?? Could you give some more detail??

wm
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strokin
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 03:52:19 PM »
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heres the hole in the tunnel, and the jig. 
the bracket sits inside the tunnel a skosh
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Atomwerk Engineering
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 09:25:58 AM »
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Our company has been working on a bolt unit that allows for adjustment to camber as driver sees fit. It is a replacement for stock axles and will not devalue a classic. Hope to have it available for production soon. I say, why hack a classic if it is not necessary?

www.atomwerk.org
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 09:25:58 AM »

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Kimbo
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 11:36:07 AM »
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The only comment I can make on this is more a word of caution than anything else. My tube frame race buggy, was originally based on a swing axle rear end, and 2 PO's before me modified it to run IRS in pretty much the same manner as VIN describes, i.e. with the hole cut in the horns to "accomodate" the inner edges of the pivot boxes. This setup has worked very successfully for many years - HOWEVER, when I purchased the buggy I did notice notice some small cracks in the horns around where the pivot boxes were located. Last year during an engine swap I decided to finally attack/address these cracks and get them fixed once and for all.

The issue, turns out, was not cracks in the horns themselves (thankfully), but cracks around the welds that essentially joined the pivot boxes to the horns. We ended up plating the complete top of the horns and over the tops of the pivot boxes to spread the load - they haven't reappeared - yet.

I run a water cooled engine, which has fixed engine mounts, so the weight of the trans and engine is not just hung off the horns, it's spread around the frame. I'm not saying that there's any problems with the method described, and it's used commonly here in Aus, but, you are cutting a hole into an area that supports a fair amount of weight, and are therefore potentially weakening it.

So, if you're going to take this approach, ensure your welding skills are up to scratch (a bird poo blobby approach like mine, is definitely NOT recommended for this area) or get a pro welder to do it for you. And, depending on the amount of heavy offroad use, you may need to check that area for stress fractures more frequently than you would if were used for just blacktop work.


Cheers ... Kimbo
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strokin
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 11:44:30 AM »
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Our company has been working on a bolt unit that allows for adjustment to camber as driver sees fit. It is a replacement for stock axles and will not devalue a classic. Hope to have it available for production soon. I say, why hack a classic if it is not necessary?

www.atomwerk.org


cant wait to see the actual parts!   good to see more American companys producing what looks like to be quality parts.  the Chinese crap is getting a little old
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Atomwerk Engineering
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 07:13:10 AM »
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Our company has been working on a bolt unit that allows for adjustment to camber as driver sees fit. It is a replacement for stock axles and will not devalue a classic. Hope to have it available for production soon. I say, why hack a classic if it is not necessary?

www.atomwerk.org


cant wait to see the actual parts!   good to see more American companys producing what looks like to be quality parts.  the Chinese crap is getting a little old


Thank you for the encouragement. I too am tired of the Chinese crap that only ruins our cars. These companies appear to have no quality control so often times the products are junk even before you can put them on. I have the prototype to a fully adjustable camber unit in my garage and I have about 10 years of engineering into it. I cannot disclose the details about it due to patent issues, but suffice to say it does work well. When I am finished I will be able to sell an entire suspension that has been custom engineered to get the most performance out of our beloved swing axles without having to hack and devalue them. I have designed an entire suspension for swing axles that may just surpass the mighty IRS.

While I am not able to offer the entire project yet, I have just completed my Drop Plates and Raise Plates for the short torsion bar (21 3/4) swing axle suspension and they work fantastic! I could talk about the technical reasons why they work so well all day, but that cannot convey how good it feels just to drive it over many types of roads and know that the car is lowered! You cannot tell that from inside the car when you are driving it.

I have an adjustable ride height version hub that is soon to be available and bolts directly to these plates.
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buggyman
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We're done!,Uh-oh,where's this bolt go?


« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2011, 02:15:16 PM »
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 Grin
"Thank you for the encouragement."
Our company has been working on a bolt unit that allows for adjustment to camber as driver sees fit. It is a replacement for stock axles and will not devalue a classic. Hope to have it available for production soon. I say, why hack a classic if it is not necessary?

www.atomwerk.org

How's about starting an axle modification exchange Wink ,modding swing axles & their tubes sent in at the outboard end to articulate,a splined sleeve allowed to slide on the original cut-off & now splined axle to allow for either a Ujoint or CV at the outboard end,kindof a 1/2 IRS setup which'd allow the springplate to remain vertical while the internal splines on the sleeve & external splines on the axle slide back & forth across each other to make up for the travel distance between fully compressed & fully extended Evil .
Just a thought to look into Wink .
 Beer Grin
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Atomwerk Engineering
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 03:14:37 AM »
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...a splined sleeve allowed to slide on the original cut-off & now splined axle to allow for either a Ujoint or CV at the outboard end,kindof a 1/2 IRS setup which'd allow the springplate to remain vertical while the internal splines on the sleeve & external splines on the axle slide back & forth across each other to make up for the travel distance between fully compressed & fully extended Evil

I have an invention that actually has another joint in it kind of like you mentioned except that this joint is stronger than CVs. In fact I have developed an entire atomwerk rear suspension for swingaxles in particular. The plates that are now for sale will actually integrate to the future production adjustable camber unit.

Hey with those big tires on your buggy I was curious if you are running the short torsion bars for tire clearance or the longer ones?

Charles.
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buggyman
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We're done!,Uh-oh,where's this bolt go?


« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 04:15:44 PM »
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 Grin
Dayo Charles Smiley ,
"Hey with those big tires on your buggy I was curious if you are running the short torsion bars for tire clearance or the longer ones?"
Check out Wink :
http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/smf/index.php?topic=5021.msg35050#msg35050
What I found was that for my Wink purposes in the type of terrain I  Wink was running on the long torsions were just a little too Shocked forgiving Wink ,so coupled with the cost of upgrading the long torsions above stock grade & the ease of the solution we just shaved the tires until I made that torsion change to shortys which I already had spares of onhand Wink .
BTW,I notched the springplates back in the early 1980's & they're still chuggin' away Cheesy ,but as you can see this is on an IRS setup as opposed to schwing! Cheesy axle,so little to no tuckabilty like I experienced on the earlier rail Shocked (came reeeeealy close to rollovers but it just never developed into that Cool ,WHEW! LOL_Sign ).

Looking like a good plan of attack between the thicker/stronger plates & plans of a strong semi-articulated axle that you have goin' there Charles Smiley ,keep it up,keep it up,keep it up headbang .
 Grin
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