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Author Topic: IRS pivot box bushes  (Read 3300 times)
 
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Kimbo
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ksadelaide
« on: February 26, 2010, 04:43:49 PM »
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Quick question guys on IRS pivot box bushes

As part of repairs to the frame (prior to installing the new engine) I've now got to rebuild the rear suspension - managed to melt the pivot box bushes while doing some welding -  Banghead. Anyhow in talking to my local bush-man (no not Steve Erwin) whilst attempting to get the replacements I've been told there are differences in bush sizes between the standard bug and the super bug.

Now the question is, is it the "pin/bolt" size that differs in OD, or is it the OD of the bush itself ? I've looked on the Chirco Online shop, and it only seems to show 1 size. I'll find out for sure when I take it all apart, but I'm trying to buy all the bits before I do that, so any help would be appreciated.

 Beer ... Kimbo
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« on: February 26, 2010, 04:43:49 PM »

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buggyman
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 09:06:25 PM »
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 Grin
Dayo Kimbo Smiley ,
"pivot box bushes" is not really a familiar term(nevermind that,I found 'em http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1561  Wink ),but given that you mention "pin/bolt" I'm pretty much assuming that you're talking #'s 30 & 29 here:(Trailing arm bushings)

as opposed to #'s 18 & 19 here:(Springplate bushings)

#30-on both standards & supers-are the same part# 113-501-541-C
#29-on both standards & supers-are the same part# 113-501-535-A
 Wink Beer Grin
 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 07:16:31 PM by buggyman » Logged

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ksadelaide
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 08:07:18 AM »
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Err, yeah, kind-of in that area - what I've got to replace are these: http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2549 and I'm wondering whether the OD of these units differs between standard bug and super bug, or whether it's the OD of these, the pins that go through the bushes: http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3726
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buggyman
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 12:34:00 AM »
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 Grin
"Err, yeah, kind-of in that area"
MMMMMMno Cheesy ,that's the spot I was thinkin' of Kimbo Wink Smiley :
I've been told Huh there are differences in bush sizes between the standard bug and the super bug."
"#30-on both standards & supers-are the same part# 113-501-541-C"
"#29-on both standards & supers-are the same part# 113-501-535-A"
Also,#27's-on both standards & supers-are the same part#'s:
113-501-503-G =left
113-501-504-G =right
That =that the ID of the pivots points-on both standards & supers-on the trailing arms are identical.
You need a new bush-man Roll Eyes  Tongue .
If all part #'s are identical on both standards & supers,the parts themselves are identical-OD on the bolt-ID & OD on the bushing-ID on the arms Wink .
I can see where there might be some confusion caused in the http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1561 link,where it only states that "installing aftermarkert rear arms on you car",you can use stock un-boxed trailing arms on these pivot points,& the lack of pointing out in the http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2549 link "will fit stock trailing arms".
I guess the big Q would be whether or not what you have on your car now is all OG based or something custom built from a different source Dontknow ,in which case you'd have to break out the calipers-look for a manufacturer symbol & have something custom replicated.
Personally Wink ,I tried urethanes,for ~6mos Sad ,went straight back to the stock rubber stuff on all the F & R suspension because my teeth were chattering a little too loudly & it was getting tough to even be able to climb back outta the driver's seat after long runs Shocked ,& I just had a better "feel" of the terrain on rubber pivots than the urethanes Wink ,muuuch more like gliding over an obstacle than getting harshly bumpsteered off of it at speed especially with my relatively short suspension travel taken into account Wink .
 Beer Grin
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ksadelaide
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 04:31:57 PM »
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Thanks for the clarification/confiormation Buggyman - I probably do need a new bush man - when I bought some for my last buggy I didn't have to specify a size, so it was a bit of a surprise this time around. Hadn't considered going back to rubber, but now you've got me thinking about it - did you find they wore out/got sloppier quicker ?
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strokin
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 09:59:51 AM »
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nothin worse than a sloppy bushe..
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Kimbo
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ksadelaide
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »
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LMFAO - well, someone had to lower the tone of the conversation, and that someone might as well be you VIN  headbang
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Vice Pres. Onkaparinga Ramblers Car Club and general all-round good guy.  I'm neither, but give me a dose of Skynyrd and a half pint of Jack, and I'd be waving Ol' Dixie with the best of them.
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 04:12:42 PM »

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Rick G
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 06:33:07 PM »
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LMFAO - well, someone had to lower the tone of the conversation, and that someone might as well be you VIN  headbang

Glad somebody is helping me to push these threads off track
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buggyman
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 08:08:44 PM »
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 LOL_Sign Grin
"did you find they wore out/got sloppier quicker ?"
Nope,after ~20yrs of almost every weekend poundings =~20k offroad miles driven they're still pretty fresh & frosty Kimbo Smiley .
I built the car originally with all urethane bushings & only ~3 weekends out test running it to set things up for the long haul I noticed cracks already appearing at the front beam mounting points & rear trailing arm pivot points Shocked ,after I believe was just the 5th weekend out I came home with 3 of the 4 front beam mounting points completely seperated from the frame Banghead & a lot more cracks around the rear framehorn + @~25yrs old myself at the time I was walking around like I was 80 Cheesy from the beating I was dishing out to myself on the 90% hard-packed high desert terrain I was running on,quite similar to if not harsher than the terrains you're running on judging from the pics you've posted up Wink .
I had everything welded back together & some extra tabbing/gusseting added but it was still a much harsher ride than I wanted or expected =not particularly fun to run at speed Sad ,& after ~another month even the extra gusseting started showing cracks again Banghead ,so back in went all the stock stuff & to my knowledge to date-including having gone through a complete rebuild by the new owner-suspension/frame/myself related cracks became a non issue,it was fun to run again Grin ,once it's fun rather than work to operate is when you start to kick some serious bootay on the competition Wink .
I'm lookin' at this from the perspective of the type of running you(do) & I(did) subject ourselves to Wink ,pretty radical offroad shizzle Cheesy ,the urethanes certainly have their place in road & AutoX applications where the running surface is clearly defined-much smoother & predictable,or a sand application-cushy surface to start with,rather than the random & radical terrain changes offroad where sudden shock loads have to be either absorbed by the suspension or get transferred directly to the frame & it's occupants-something's gonna break,& keep breaking until you give it a little more give somewhere than what you've got now Wink .
 Beer Grin
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ksadelaide
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 08:29:25 PM »
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Thanks Buggyman - I think I'll have a look at getting the rubber ones instead - frame cracking and body aching seem to be my main enemies, so any help in that area is welcomed.

Cheers ... Kimbo
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 05:35:33 AM »
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Here's the original off my 72 before I cleaned it up.  Like new after cleaning!  The Bushings were in very good shape.  I lubricated the bolt and bushings with white lithium grease when installing to 87 FTP Smiley

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strokin
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 04:39:32 PM »
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LMFAO - well, someone had to lower the tone of the conversation, and that someone might as well be you VIN  headbang

Glad somebody is helping me to push these threads off track

i gotta jump in, help you out, once in awhile Smiley
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Kimbo
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ksadelaide
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 05:45:59 PM »
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Mmm, it seems rubber is not the used material these days for IRS bushes - at least not in Aus - can't seem to easily find anywhere that actually sells them - urethane, yes, rubber, no. There's got be somewhere, so, back to good old google and yellow pages
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Vice Pres. Onkaparinga Ramblers Car Club and general all-round good guy.  I'm neither, but give me a dose of Skynyrd and a half pint of Jack, and I'd be waving Ol' Dixie with the best of them.
buggyman
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 10:01:42 PM »
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 Grin
How's about http://www.mickmotors.com.au/HOMENEW.htm http://www.mickmotors.com.au/CAT5.htm
from
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=113-501-541-C&start=0&sa=N
Otherwise it looks like CIP-1 also carries them.
 Grin
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ksadelaide
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 10:55:20 PM »
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Damn you're good buggyman - however, it's past closing time for Qld, so I'll give them a call tomorrow - one place I phone today, a supposed VW specialty place denied all knowledge of any kind of bush being in that location - and I tried all manner of descriptions and names for it. I'm also waiting on a call back from another place who didn;t have any and were contacing their supplier.

Thanks mate

Cheers ... Kimbo
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 10:55:20 PM »

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buggyman
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2010, 01:31:24 AM »
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 Grin Beer
Maybe even ask if they carry or can acquire the "green dot" versions-gd's are considered longlife versions because of a newer rubber formula that was introduced for replacement engine & suspension components ~20yrs ago,they're not stiffer,just more resilient over time Wink ,they're characterized by a little fluorescent green sticker or paint dot splashed on the surface of the rubber portion somewhere & somewhat like this

pretty much the same color of the guy on the right here Fart riiight after the Phart LOL_Sign .
While I know that I've seen gd rubber trailing arm bushings in the past,I just can't find an image of them Sad .
Also ask to see if they can ID a production date which'd either be stenciled on the outer metal housing but more likely cast directly into the rubber portion probably in the Euro fashion(day-month-year) rather than the Western fashion(month-day-year),that'll tell you if they've been holding down warehouse shelves for a loooong time or more likely came more recently from fresh outa the Puebla Mexico VW plant Wink .
Something I also ran across while surfing was an article :
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=396892&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
discussing diesel engine vibration transfer,totally indirectly applicable to this particular conversation but maybe somewhat useful toward your new engine mounting in order to help cut down on engine to frame torque damage & driver fatigue,kinda harkening back to Andeez Smiley situation Wink .
 Beer Smiley Grin
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